A place for people to discuss items of interest to the Portland 3HO community. This forum is un-moderated. The opinions expressed are those of the person making them. No assumption of endorsement should be made.
Saturday, February 10, 2007
First Post
This blog is created to allow for a space for people in the Portland 3HO community to have space to discuss topics of interest to themselves and the community.
Sat Nam, This is Ram Kaur. Thank you for inviting me to this blog. I have not blogged before so this is all new to me. I have not been very active in our 3HO community for awhile as I have been busy working at Powells Books and was teaching dance until this September. It is nice to be here. Right now I am attending a very nice Hatha Yoga class that is helping my injured hip a lot. I practice Kundalini Yoga at home on my own in addition to Hatha every day. I am Catholic and belong to a Jesuit parish here in Portland where I am very active-I also love the Sikh community and try to bring yoga teachings and Kundalini meditations and breathing practices to my fellow parishioners whenever I have an opportunity to do so. What are your views on mixing spiritual teachings/traditions as I am doing? Would love comments & feedback from the community. thanks for reading and inviting me!
Glad we get to start with a safe and easy topic like mixing spiritual traditions.
My view is that we all do that to some degree. I've seen it enhance peoples experience of their primary tradition and I've also seen it scatter and dilute what they are doing. Kind of depends on how and the degree to which it is being done. Is the person using it like visiting a foreign country to learn more about themselves & their tradition or are they using it to avoid being confronted by the message of their tradition in an area that they rightfully need to be confronted. No one I know is doing only their one spiritual practice. They have jobs, hobbies, and history to name a few that all color their take on that practice. Sometimes it contributes sometimes it diverts.
Glad to have you on this blog Ram Kaur. I look forward to more interaction.
Sat Nam, Thanks for your input. That is what I have found. For me, everything I study and practice enhances my spiritual practice. It has been my experience that all of the traditions I study/have studied get to the heart of confrontational issues. For example, we are experienceg confrontations right now in my parish community around health care for everyone and other human rights issue. Although there is a clear Catholic Social Teaching regarding these things, just as there is a clear Sikh, Buddhist and probably others, it is amazing how it is being skirted around and how the issues can be always be avoided and rationalized. I am slowly making my voice heard, but it is really tough to publicly state the beliefs and practices that are so close to me. Not only there but in my personal life, there is no way to avoid any of these issues and sometimes they are painful. Not being judgemental is so difficult-but there again, all traditions say we must not judge others. Thanks for reading.
I am glad to see the topic of mixing spiritual practices as a discussion blog. I agree with Hari Dass and Ram Kaur. I have attended both Krishna temples and Sikh temples for a while now. For me, each temple or faith has its own purpose. The Sikh temple satisfies my spiritual philosophy - the traditional Gurbani kirtan takes me home to India and naturally evokes surrender. The meaning of each word/song/chant, for me, is authentic. No other faith I know has reached the level of direct truth (through word) as has the Sikh faith. The Krishna temple/community was my spiritual path from birth. Because it was the faith of my birth - that which led me (molded me) for the first 14 years of my life - it is my family and my honor. I choose what I resonate with from both Sikh and Krishna communities and apply that very principle to each experience and interaction in my life. Thus far, I feel I have never been misguided.
The topic of judgement or judging others ... I always find somewhat perplexing (?) or amusing (?). I'm not sure what the word is to describe the feeling - perhaps a careful topic. Ram Kaur brings up that all traditions state that we must not judge others. I question the traditions and say 'isn't that a judgement in itself?' Yes, I do judge, we all do, I think without judgement (more specifically - awareness and acceptance of that judgement) we could never truly learn who we are. Isn't it really self-judgement? Judgement of others is a mirror that allows us to see ourselves - often the parts of ourselves that we are learning to love. And that is why we feel pain and why we weep... This, I feel, has been true for me. All in all, I think we need to be lighter on ourselves and our judgements. If someone tosses out a judgement, we can see really what he or she is discovering in his-/herself. It has absolutely nothing to do with the external. I like it because it is a way of loving the judgement and helping the individual to truly discover who they are. It is acknowledgement.
Well I think that there is a difference between judgment and discernment. Judgment has a quality of making the self or the other "wrong." Discernment has more the quality of on target / off target. It leaves off the make-wrong piece. Not judging doesn't mean that anything goes, it just leaves off the piece of condemnation. So it's important to assess whether we're on target or not and if not make the necessary correction. We're not however "bad" for being off-target, just not getting the outcome that we might want. Everyone get liberated eventually. Just a question of how long is eventually. I also think that we can be much more helpful to ourselves and others if we can communicate "correction" from the point of view of discernment. It leaves off the guilt.
Sat Nam< I think discernment is very different from judgement. When I said judgement I meant judgement - i.e., mentally criticizing another for whatever they are doing that our ego disapproves of. Actually not looking at the other persons point of view. I believe discernment is something we must do constantly. Judging means exactly that and we all do it-hopefully are aware, just as we are all judged constantly. My understanding of discernment is looking at all aspects which of course includes other points of view or opinions, not necessarily meaning we agree either. The judgement thing is something I have to look at in myself constantly. Ram Kaur
Sat Nam, This is a very interesting series to read. Thank you for your posts. One group that I make a point of serving is the interfaith community. I made a connection with that community when we lived in Eugene and it is still the community I serve gratefully and humbly. I believe that there is an interfaith community here in Portland, but I don't really know anything about their activities. What I most appreciate about this group is the explicit acknowledment of multiple ways of knowing, being, and moving toward the Infinite- many ways of being in spirit- many ways to pray, worship and live faith-fully. I have learned much about other faith traditions. As a representative of the Sikh Dharma, I have learned more about my own faith from working to distill it into short sound-bytes that I share when speaking or introducing a shabad, song, or mantra to the group. This past weekend, I spoke and played at a service on the theme of 'Infinite Compassion' with the intefaith community- it featured Tibetan, Zen and Theravedan Buddhists, The Sufi tradition, Catholic, Sikh, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Bahai, Christian and Native American reflections and experiences related to this topic. I felt myself to be in heaven- hearing all the languages, the prayers, the songs and chants- and imagined myself as part of the heart of GOD that was so full and resonant- reciprocal in 'his' receiving of these prayers, and in the return of manifold blessings and miracles! There was no separation at all. There is something about worshiping together as one- yet distinct in our differences- that really matters in this world. As a projection and model for peace but also as a model for how potentiated we all are from being in contact with, worshipping with, working with, playing with and loving all people of God- knowing the depth of that path and not only not seeking to change it- but valuing the diversity it brings to the discourse on spirit. It is also kind of about loving the differences and being able to hold things that are only apparant paradoxes- apparant only because we are too limited to see the dynamic beauty of their oneness. I was born into the Catholic faith-which I lived and loved all the years of my childhood. Somewhere along the way, it became too small for me- largely because of the limited beliefs of my family- it is a very rich faith. I retreated to Unitarianism and worked my way to God through my intellect and developed a set of beliefs that were consonant with my values as a human. I married a Sikh and over a long period of time, came to understand through my own epiphany but also through Guru Nanak, that "It's not about the mode- its about the road". I understood that there were no rights and wrongs when it comes to moving toward the Divine- there is only God's Grace and when we live with love and sincerity and intention to be in God's will, we are in the heart of God. It's not even really a path... that is too dual...we simply are in the heart of God. Waheguru!
Sat Nam, I have been reading "Daughter of Fire" a book on spiritual training with a Sufi master. At first I was feeling confused because I could resonate with alot of which I read and it wasnt that different from what I had been studying in Kundalini Yoga and didnt want to "shake my beliefs". I was glad to read these posts because I have come to conclusion that just as all rivers and streams,whether they are large fast flowing rivers or smaller streams that move slowly..they eventually all run to the same body of water.
8 comments:
Sat Nam,
This is Ram Kaur. Thank you for inviting me to this blog. I have not blogged before so this is all new to me. I have not been very active in our 3HO community for awhile as I have been busy working at Powells Books and was teaching dance until this September. It is nice to be here.
Right now I am attending a very nice Hatha Yoga class that is helping my injured hip a lot. I practice Kundalini Yoga at home on my own in addition to Hatha every day. I am Catholic and belong to a Jesuit parish here in Portland where I am very active-I also love the Sikh community and try to bring yoga teachings and Kundalini meditations and breathing practices to my fellow parishioners whenever I have an opportunity to do so. What are your views on mixing spiritual teachings/traditions as I am doing? Would love comments & feedback from the community. thanks for reading and inviting me!
Glad we get to start with a safe and easy topic like mixing spiritual traditions.
My view is that we all do that to some degree. I've seen it enhance peoples experience of their primary tradition and I've also seen it scatter and dilute what they are doing. Kind of depends on how and the degree to which it is being done. Is the person using it like visiting a foreign country to learn more about themselves & their tradition or are they using it to avoid being confronted by the message of their tradition in an area that they rightfully need to be confronted. No one I know is doing only their one spiritual practice. They have jobs, hobbies, and history to name a few that all color their take on that practice. Sometimes it contributes sometimes it diverts.
Glad to have you on this blog Ram Kaur. I look forward to more interaction.
Hari Dass.
Sat Nam,
Thanks for your input. That is what I have found. For me, everything I study and practice enhances my spiritual practice. It has been my experience that all of the traditions I study/have studied get to the heart of confrontational issues. For example, we are experienceg confrontations right now in my parish community around health care for everyone and other human rights issue. Although there is a clear Catholic Social Teaching regarding these things, just as there is a clear Sikh, Buddhist and probably others, it is amazing how it is being skirted around and how the issues can be always be avoided and rationalized. I am slowly making my voice heard, but it is really tough to publicly state the beliefs and practices that are so close to me. Not only there but in my personal life, there is no way to avoid any of these issues and sometimes they are painful. Not being judgemental is so difficult-but there again, all traditions say we must not judge others. Thanks for reading.
I am glad to see the topic of mixing spiritual practices as a discussion blog. I agree with Hari Dass and Ram Kaur. I have attended both Krishna temples and Sikh temples for a while now. For me, each temple or faith has its own purpose. The Sikh temple satisfies my spiritual philosophy - the traditional Gurbani kirtan takes me home to India and naturally evokes surrender. The meaning of each word/song/chant, for me, is authentic. No other faith I know has reached the level of direct truth (through word) as has the Sikh faith. The Krishna temple/community was my spiritual path from birth. Because it was the faith of my birth - that which led me (molded me) for the first 14 years of my life - it is my family and my honor. I choose what I resonate with from both Sikh and Krishna communities and apply that very principle to each experience and interaction in my life. Thus far, I feel I have never been misguided.
The topic of judgement or judging others ... I always find somewhat perplexing (?) or amusing (?). I'm not sure what the word is to describe the feeling - perhaps a careful topic. Ram Kaur brings up that all traditions state that we must not judge others. I question the traditions and say 'isn't that a judgement in itself?' Yes, I do judge, we all do, I think without judgement (more specifically - awareness and acceptance of that judgement) we could never truly learn who we are. Isn't it really self-judgement? Judgement of others is a mirror that allows us to see ourselves - often the parts of ourselves that we are learning to love. And that is why we feel pain and why we weep... This, I feel, has been true for me. All in all, I think we need to be lighter on ourselves and our judgements. If someone tosses out a judgement, we can see really what he or she is discovering in his-/herself. It has absolutely nothing to do with the external. I like it because it is a way of loving the judgement and helping the individual to truly discover who they are. It is acknowledgement.
Well I think that there is a difference between judgment and discernment. Judgment has a quality of making the self or the other "wrong." Discernment has more the quality of on target / off target. It leaves off the make-wrong piece. Not judging doesn't mean that anything goes, it just leaves off the piece of condemnation. So it's important to assess whether we're on target or not and if not make the necessary correction. We're not however "bad" for being off-target, just not getting the outcome that we might want. Everyone get liberated eventually. Just a question of how long is eventually. I also think that we can be much more helpful to ourselves and others if we can communicate "correction" from the point of view of discernment. It leaves off the guilt.
That's my current take on it anyway.
Sat Nam<
I think discernment is very different from judgement. When I said judgement I meant judgement - i.e., mentally criticizing another for whatever they are doing that our ego disapproves of. Actually not looking at the other persons point of view. I believe discernment is something we must do constantly. Judging means exactly that and we all do it-hopefully are aware, just as we are all judged constantly. My understanding of discernment is looking at all aspects which of course includes other points of view or opinions, not necessarily meaning we agree either. The judgement thing is something I have to look at in myself constantly.
Ram Kaur
Sat Nam,
This is a very interesting series to read. Thank you for your posts. One group that I make a point of serving is the interfaith community. I made a connection with that community when we lived in Eugene and it is still the community I serve gratefully and humbly. I believe that there is an interfaith community here in Portland, but I don't really know anything about their activities.
What I most appreciate about this group is the explicit acknowledment of multiple ways of knowing, being, and moving toward the Infinite- many ways of being in spirit- many ways to pray, worship and live faith-fully.
I have learned much about other faith traditions. As a representative of the Sikh Dharma, I have learned more about my own faith from working to distill it into short sound-bytes that I share when speaking or introducing a shabad, song, or mantra to the group.
This past weekend, I spoke and played at a service on the theme of 'Infinite Compassion' with the intefaith community- it featured Tibetan, Zen and Theravedan Buddhists, The Sufi tradition, Catholic, Sikh, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Bahai, Christian and Native American reflections and experiences related to this topic. I felt myself to be in heaven- hearing all the languages, the prayers, the songs and chants- and imagined myself as part of the heart of GOD that was so full and resonant- reciprocal in 'his' receiving of these prayers, and in the return of manifold blessings and miracles! There was no separation at all.
There is something about worshiping together as one- yet distinct in our differences- that really matters in this world. As a projection and model for peace but also as a model for how potentiated we all are from being in contact with, worshipping with, working with, playing with and loving all people of God- knowing the depth of that path and not only not seeking to change it- but valuing the diversity it brings to the discourse on spirit. It is also kind of about loving the differences and being able to hold things that are only apparant paradoxes- apparant only because we are too limited to see the dynamic beauty of their oneness.
I was born into the Catholic faith-which I lived and loved all the years of my childhood. Somewhere along the way, it became too small for me- largely because of the limited beliefs of my family- it is a very rich faith. I retreated to Unitarianism and worked my way to God through my intellect and developed a set of beliefs that were consonant with my values as a human. I married a Sikh and over a long period of time, came to understand through my own epiphany but also through Guru Nanak, that "It's not about the mode- its about the road". I understood that there were no rights and wrongs when it comes to moving toward the Divine- there is only God's Grace and when we live with love and sincerity and intention to be in God's will, we are in the heart of God. It's not even really a path... that is too dual...we simply are in the heart of God.
Waheguru!
Sat Nam,
I have been reading "Daughter of Fire" a book on spiritual training with a Sufi master. At first I was feeling confused because I could resonate with alot of which I read and it wasnt that different from what I had been studying in Kundalini Yoga and didnt want to "shake my beliefs". I was glad to read these posts because I have come to conclusion that just as all rivers and streams,whether they are large fast flowing rivers or smaller streams that move slowly..they eventually all run to the same body of water.
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